This yrs "MD" Poll. Virg won 1, but should Portnoy have made the "Hall of Fame"?

blackzoner · 06-08-2004, 10:57 AM

Hello there fellow "PX" fans & musicians!

Well the 2004 "MD" reader's poll is out in this months issue, & while I KNOW this is mainly a 'popularity contest'(we've been over all these things before when I brought this subject up last year!)it's INSANE to me that Portnoy was voted into "MD's" "Hall of Fame"! Come on voters, he's a good drummer but doesn't deserve this HIGH of an HONOR!

I mean look at past "Hall of Fame" inductee's, Krupa-Buddy Rich-Bonham-Peart-Gadd-Tony Williams-Cobham-Carl Palmer-Bruford-Blakely-Max Roach-Porcaro-Elvin Jones-Colaiuta-Bozzio-Chambers-Smith
& last yrs inductee Simon Phillips!(Not to mention the others)While Portnoy is vg there is NO F*UCKING WAY HE'S ACCOMPLISHED ENOUGH TO GET THIS PRESTIGIOUS AWARD!

I'd like to know if you guys feel the same way I do about this?

Portnoy ALSO won "Best Progressive Drummer" AGAIN & our guy Virgil placed 2nd!There is no way that Portnoy is a better "Progressive Drummer" that Virg or even a few others!!

Well Virgil FINALLY won 1 catagory, "Best Clinician" & he definitely should have!Plus Portnoy didn't even place in this catagory this year,thanks to the voters! Virgil also placed 5th in the "All Around" catagory which Vinnie again won. I understand that, & Vinnie deserves to win, however with all the different styles Virgil's played this year & last w/so many very different bands, I think Virgil could have easily won this catagory!

So once again the poll is over & it seems like many of you guys/girls decided to vote for Virgil in a few catagories, thanks!

However, I believe Virgil should have at least PLACEDin a couple of other catagories! EG: in "Best Rock Drummer" Neil Peart won but Virg didn't even place
& Virgil didn't show up in the "Recorded Performance" catagory! Morgan Rose of the band "Sevendust" won & once again Portnoy came in second for "DT's" "Train of Thought"(?)& while "PX" didn't have a 'new enuff' recording for Virgil to get in here, he's recorded at least
a couple of other great cd's that I feel he should have at least been in the top 5!

Well, I should have known better again this year
that Virgil wouldn't win a few more catagories or at least place in(!)but i'm an optimist & always go into these polls thinking the best drummers should win in 'their' best catagories!but as I 1st said we've covered last year all the reasons why a supreme drummer like Donati wouldn't win the catagories he should win. I guess there's always 'hope' for next year!

I hope others will comment on this & what they think about Virgil's 1 win & 1 2nd place finish, as well as if they feel the other drummers deserved to win in those catagories, and pls give your thoughts on Portnoy being voted into the "Hall of Fame" which I feel is ridiculous!!

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote>"An autobiography is usually written by somebody who thinks his life is truly amazing. I do not think my life is amazing in any sense-however, the opportunity to say stuff in print about TANGENTIAL SUBJECTS is appealing" FZ in "the Real Frank Zappa Book"1989

[ June 08, 2004: Message edited by: blackzoner ]</p>

rage · 06-08-2004, 11:38 AM

I completely agree that Virgil could've and SHOULD'VE taken the top spot in a number of categories!!! Criminal that he didn't.

As far as Portnoy goes, if I had to justify his getting the Hall of Fame nod I would say it's because he is the 'Eddie Van Halen' of his instrument. He is not necessarily the BEST, but he single-handedly has inspired a whole generation of players to pick up the sticks and GO FOR IT! (much like EVH did for the guitar decades ago). Portnoy is largely responsible for making 'prog' a viable musical choice for many in the modern era...people for whom bands like Yes and Crimson are a profound bore. So, I think he gets the nod more for what he represents and for his influence than for his talent.

rage

kirk · 06-08-2004, 11:40 AM

Virg won where he definitely should of "Clinician" category. Should of took progressive hands down. Mike Portnoy I believe is a great Class guy personally, but Hall of Fame
no way(as for drumming accomplishments), but like Peart just his influence got him in and hey Cool. But what is comical and shows MANY guy's
no VERY little concerning drumming and really probably could care less that they do is that Portnoy was 3rd in All-Around WHAT???!!! All Around what? All Around knitting contest, kite flying possibly. It is suppose to represent a true representation of stylistic diversity. Portnoy is a ROCK drummer period. Vinnie yeah for sure and Virg yeah for sure, pop, funk, prog, metal,fusion these guy's can do it, and did do it. Oh well just shows you the polls are VERY!! hit and miss. Again they are polls and some who vote do it with a clear conscience and REAL understanding some do not. What is funny is to check out the DRUM magazine polls now that is some FUNNY STUFF!! going on over there, it is definitely good comic relief for the most part.

Kirk

blackzoner · 06-08-2004, 12:37 PM

Hey Kirk!
That was some funny shit about Portnoy being 3rd in the "Best All Around" catagory, He He!

As you know we agree on the way these contest's are voted "for" or why different so called "knowledgeable drummers" vote the way they do....they vote for their faves NOT the person that's most deserving!

RAGE: While I too think Portnoy is a vg drummer & he does play a form of "progressive music" & has brought 1000's of kids to drumming but that can be said of SO MANY of the drummers in the poll & especially those in the "Hall of Fame" which MP certainly did NOT DESERVE!

Now i'm an older guy(52 to be exact)that still plays in a very sucessful band which plays at least 3 times a week locally & often tours other midwest states, & we play many different types of music, 1 form of which is progressive music & I totally disagree w/you that King Crimson is a old, BORING progressive band! have you listened to any of their recent releases? Well "KC's" leader Robert Fripp keeps the band & music fresh by continually changing the bands line-up, so yeah "YES" keeps doing the same old shit, but King Crimson, no way! I respect your opinion, but I do disagree with you on this one!

Kirk, I'll have to buy the "DRUM" magazine that has the poll in it, as I bought it 2 times but found it to be an inferior drum mag & therefore stopped. Can you tell me what issue has their "poll" results in it? Thanks, & thanks to both of you for giving your thoughts on my post!

Oh yeah, before I go for those of you that DO STILL DIG THE OLDER KING CRIMSON MATERIAL, there is a great band made up of former members of the 1969 thru 1971 "King Crimson line-up's & the only non "King Crimson" alumnus, is a great guitarist named Jakko Jakszyk whose released solo cd's on the "Favored Nations" label & has played w/other great bands like Mark King & "Level 42" ect. & these guys Mel Collins saxes/flute/keys-Michael Giles drums(he's now left the band & has been replaced by another great ex "KC" drummer Ian Wallace-Peter Giles bass & Ian McDonald Alto sax/flute/keysgrand piano, & Jakko who SOMEHOW plays the great guitar parts as Fripp originally did & also somehow sings the different styles of vocals! As the band switched from origianl vocalist Greg lake(of ELP)to other great vocalists

They've released 2 cd's both live & just released a great dvd "Live in Japan" & you can learn all about these great musicians by going to:
www.21stcenturyschizoidband.com and the dvd has 14 great songs(5 of the 8 origial "KC" songs are from the seminal debut King Crimson. "In The Court of The Crimson King" album done in 1969 before ANY BAND was doing "progressive music")
& the other 3 of the KC originals are also seminal songs 1 being from the 2nd KC album called
"In The Wake Of Poseiden" the 1970 2nd lp! The other orignals are from KC's "ISLANDS"(71) & the other 6 are either new or are from the "McDonald & Giles" album(w/Fripp)the only lp by them.

Believe me this is worth checking out!

kirk · 06-08-2004, 05:55 PM

Hey BlackZoner actually the recent Drum has the poll results. A few make sense most do not. As a guy from VIrgil's site stated correctly Drum is the magazine with LOTS of guy's that have a large tattoo to skin ratio who wish they could play for the most part.

Kirk

Texter · 06-09-2004, 02:55 AM

ToT was well received and VD makes a lot of music most people can't stand for 20 seconds. Easy as that. So stop whining, it's not like MP is a big pussy like Lars Ulrich.

Sillybreadmania · 06-09-2004, 03:23 AM

I agree with Texter. It's not a big deal guys. Haven't you guys learned anything about awards and lists? I'm pretty sure after watching the grammies and reading anything in Rolling Stone, you would have to agree that favoritism should be placed in your own individual thought and shouldn't be affected by group of people who probably have little knowledge, apathy, or just inexperience.

Plus, give Portnoy credit. I bet half of you wouldn't even be listening to PX if it weren't for Dream Theater. Mike Portnoy is one of the best "gateway" drummers I've ever heard and is a rudimentary genius. Also, I've been listening to Transatlantic much lately, and with every time I listen to their music, a greater and deeper appreciation for Portnoy hits me. He is a great drummer and I am more than glad for him.

kirk · 06-09-2004, 11:58 AM

SillyBread in total sincerity and being totally cordial and not doing this to start a fight, PLEASE!! explain to me Mike Portnoy's rudimental genius. Beyond simple groupings of single stroke use where is the genius. Portnoy is so basic it is not even funny. There are 18 year old guy's all over the net with deeper rudimentary
foundations than Portnoy has even used. You want genius dig into Virg, Lang, Colaiuta, Weckl and so forth. No kidding these guy's with just right hand and foot are more innovative and complex than Portnoy can think of being. Portnoy being very busy does not make him very complex or innovative, Keith Moon was VERY busy and his drumming was simple. And I also guarantee you Texter MANY guy's listening to Virg and Planet X are not and have not been Big fan's if fans at all of Dream Theater period.

Some guy's will always say why compare well because people always say This guy's got the goods and many guy's say show us the goods if you say they are there it is that simple. Talk is easy showing the proof otherwise. There are guy's (unknown)all over Virgil's board who are more developed technically and more innovative than Portnoy period.

Kirk

Kirk

rage · 06-09-2004, 12:43 PM

"Mike Portnoy is one of the best "gateway" drummers I've ever heard."

I think Sillybreadmania and I seem to be in agreement that it is more for what Portnoy has "done for the sport" than for any individual prowess. Those of you who have been progging it for decades and have a deep appreciation for the old guard may be missing the weight of Portnoy's influence. There are thousands of musicians (drummer and non drummer alike) for whom 'prog' begins with Dream Theater (we all know Portnoy is DT's "leader"); for whom DT is the technical yardstick by which 'great' music is measured. These prog 'newbies' don't know or care to know (yet) about all the old names of past musical masters. They want to play like Mike!!! Alot of em I know personally STARTED with DT and then explored forward to bands like PX, Symphony X... even Buckethead. They really haven't had much interest in exploring Crimson or other members of the old guard. Seen in this light, DT kinda ushered in a nu-prog movement. Since Portnoy is their "leader", he certainly deserves a lionshare of the credit.

rage

garneau · 06-09-2004, 03:03 PM

im wondering what would be the point of view of Mr.Sherinian about all that... after all, he's one of the rare ones who got the chance to play with both Virgil and Mike...
i mean not only for a jam...
live shows around the world with both of them for several years now and released a bunch of albums with them also...

06-08-2004, 10:57 AM	#1
blackzoner Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO. USA Posts: 153	Hello there fellow "PX" fans & musicians! Well the 2004 "MD" reader's poll is out in this months issue, & while I KNOW this is mainly a 'popularity contest'(we've been over all these things before when I brought this subject up last year!)it's INSANE to me that Portnoy was voted into "MD's" "Hall of Fame"! Come on voters, he's a good drummer but doesn't deserve this HIGH of an HONOR! I mean look at past "Hall of Fame" inductee's, Krupa-Buddy Rich-Bonham-Peart-Gadd-Tony Williams-Cobham-Carl Palmer-Bruford-Blakely-Max Roach-Porcaro-Elvin Jones-Colaiuta-Bozzio-Chambers-Smith & last yrs inductee Simon Phillips!(Not to mention the others)While Portnoy is vg there is *NO FUCKING WAY HE'S ACCOMPLISHED ENOUGH TO GET THIS PRESTIGIOUS AWARD! I'd like to know if you guys feel the same way I do about this? Portnoy ALSO won "Best Progressive Drummer" AGAIN & our guy Virgil placed 2nd!There is no way that Portnoy is a better "Progressive Drummer" that Virg or even a few others!! Well Virgil FINALLY won 1 catagory, "Best Clinician" & he definitely should have!Plus Portnoy didn't even place in this catagory this year,thanks to the voters! Virgil also placed 5th in the "All Around" catagory which Vinnie again won. I understand that, & Vinnie deserves to win, however with all the different styles Virgil's played this year & last w/so many very different bands, I think Virgil could have easily won this catagory! So once again the poll is over & it seems like many of you guys/girls decided to vote for Virgil in a few catagories, thanks! However, I believe Virgil should have at least PLACEDin a couple of other catagories! EG: in "Best Rock Drummer" Neil Peart won but Virg didn't even place & Virgil didn't show up in the "Recorded Performance" catagory! Morgan Rose of the band "Sevendust" won & once again Portnoy came in second for "DT's" "Train of Thought"(?)& while "PX" didn't have a 'new enuff' recording for Virgil to get in here, he's recorded at least a couple of other great cd's that I feel he should have at least been in the top 5! Well, I should have known better again this year that Virgil wouldn't win a few more catagories or at least place in(!)but i'm an optimist & always go into these polls thinking the best drummers should win in 'their' best catagories!but as I 1st said we've covered last year all the reasons why a supreme drummer like Donati wouldn't win the catagories he should win. I guess there's always 'hope' for next year! I hope others will comment on this & what they think about Virgil's 1 win & 1 2nd place finish, as well as if they feel the other drummers deserved to win in those catagories, and pls give your thoughts on Portnoy being voted into the "Hall of Fame" which I feel is ridiculous!!** <blockquote>quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote>"An autobiography is usually written by somebody who thinks his life is truly amazing. I do not think my life is amazing in any sense-however, the opportunity to say stuff in print about TANGENTIAL SUBJECTS is appealing" FZ in "the Real Frank Zappa Book"1989 [ June 08, 2004: Message edited by: blackzoner ]</p> __________________ \"There are forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers.\" Don Van Vliet aka \"Captain Beefheart\"

06-08-2004, 12:37 PM	#4
blackzoner Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO. USA Posts: 153	Hey Kirk! That was some funny shit about Portnoy being 3rd in the "Best All Around" catagory, He He! As you know we agree on the way these contest's are voted "for" or why different so called "knowledgeable drummers" vote the way they do....they vote for their faves NOT the person that's most deserving! RAGE: While I too think Portnoy is a vg drummer & he does play a form of "progressive music" & has brought 1000's of kids to drumming but that can be said of SO MANY of the drummers in the poll & especially those in the "Hall of Fame" which MP certainly did NOT DESERVE! Now i'm an older guy(52 to be exact)that still plays in a very sucessful band which plays at least 3 times a week locally & often tours other midwest states, & we play many different types of music, 1 form of which is progressive music & I totally disagree w/you that King Crimson is a old, BORING progressive band! have you listened to any of their recent releases? Well "KC's" leader Robert Fripp keeps the band & music fresh by continually changing the bands line-up, so yeah "YES" keeps doing the same old shit, but King Crimson, no way! I respect your opinion, but I do disagree with you on this one! Kirk, I'll have to buy the "DRUM" magazine that has the poll in it, as I bought it 2 times but found it to be an inferior drum mag & therefore stopped. Can you tell me what issue has their "poll" results in it? Thanks, & thanks to both of you for giving your thoughts on my post! Oh yeah, before I go for those of you that DO STILL DIG THE OLDER KING CRIMSON MATERIAL, there is a great band made up of former members of the 1969 thru 1971 "King Crimson line-up's & the only non "King Crimson" alumnus, is a great guitarist named Jakko Jakszyk whose released solo cd's on the "Favored Nations" label & has played w/other great bands like Mark King & "Level 42" ect. & these guys Mel Collins saxes/flute/keys-Michael Giles drums(he's now left the band & has been replaced by another great ex "KC" drummer Ian Wallace-Peter Giles bass & Ian McDonald Alto sax/flute/keysgrand piano, & Jakko who SOMEHOW plays the great guitar parts as Fripp originally did & also somehow sings the different styles of vocals! As the band switched from origianl vocalist Greg lake(of ELP)to other great vocalists They've released 2 cd's both live & just released a great dvd "Live in Japan" & you can learn all about these great musicians by going to: www.21stcenturyschizoidband.com and the dvd has 14 great songs(5 of the 8 origial "KC" songs are from the seminal debut King Crimson. "In The Court of The Crimson King" album done in 1969 before ANY BAND was doing "progressive music") & the other 3 of the KC originals are also seminal songs 1 being from the 2nd KC album called "In The Wake Of Poseiden" the 1970 2nd lp! The other orignals are from KC's "ISLANDS"(71) & the other 6 are either new or are from the "McDonald & Giles" album(w/Fripp)the only lp by them. Believe me this is worth checking out! __________________ \"There are forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers.\" Don Van Vliet aka \"Captain Beefheart\"

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Modern Drummer Readers Poll - 2005	rage	General Chat	32	05-24-2005 07:36 PM

06-08-2004, 11:38 AM	#2
rage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: DETROIT - Rock City Posts: 134	I completely agree that Virgil could've and SHOULD'VE taken the top spot in a number of categories!!! Criminal that he didn't. As far as Portnoy goes, if I had to justify his getting the Hall of Fame nod I would say it's because he is the 'Eddie Van Halen' of his instrument. He is not necessarily the BEST, but he single-handedly has inspired a whole generation of players to pick up the sticks and GO FOR IT! (much like EVH did for the guitar decades ago). Portnoy is largely responsible for making 'prog' a viable musical choice for many in the modern era...people for whom bands like Yes and Crimson are a profound bore. So, I think he gets the nod more for what he represents and for his influence than for his talent. rage

06-08-2004, 11:40 AM	#3
kirk Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Spokane,Wa Posts: 324	Virg won where he definitely should of "Clinician" category. Should of took progressive hands down. Mike Portnoy I believe is a great Class guy personally, but Hall of Fame no way(as for drumming accomplishments), but like Peart just his influence got him in and hey Cool. But what is comical and shows MANY guy's no VERY little concerning drumming and really probably could care less that they do is that Portnoy was 3rd in All-Around WHAT???!!! All Around what? All Around knitting contest, kite flying possibly. It is suppose to represent a true representation of stylistic diversity. Portnoy is a ROCK drummer period. Vinnie yeah for sure and Virg yeah for sure, pop, funk, prog, metal,fusion these guy's can do it, and did do it. Oh well just shows you the polls are VERY!! hit and miss. Again they are polls and some who vote do it with a clear conscience and REAL understanding some do not. What is funny is to check out the DRUM magazine polls now that is some FUNNY STUFF!! going on over there, it is definitely good comic relief for the most part. Kirk

06-08-2004, 05:55 PM	#5
kirk Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Spokane,Wa Posts: 324	Hey BlackZoner actually the recent Drum has the poll results. A few make sense most do not. As a guy from VIrgil's site stated correctly Drum is the magazine with LOTS of guy's that have a large tattoo to skin ratio who wish they could play for the most part. Kirk

06-09-2004, 02:55 AM	#6
Texter Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 37	ToT was well received and VD makes a lot of music most people can't stand for 20 seconds. Easy as that. So stop whining, it's not like MP is a big pussy like Lars Ulrich.

06-09-2004, 03:23 AM	#7
Sillybreadmania Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Illinois, U.S. Posts: 180	I agree with Texter. It's not a big deal guys. Haven't you guys learned anything about awards and lists? I'm pretty sure after watching the grammies and reading anything in Rolling Stone, you would have to agree that favoritism should be placed in your own individual thought and shouldn't be affected by group of people who probably have little knowledge, apathy, or just inexperience. Plus, give Portnoy credit. I bet half of you wouldn't even be listening to PX if it weren't for Dream Theater. Mike Portnoy is one of the best "gateway" drummers I've ever heard and is a rudimentary genius. Also, I've been listening to Transatlantic much lately, and with every time I listen to their music, a greater and deeper appreciation for Portnoy hits me. He is a great drummer and I am more than glad for him.

06-09-2004, 11:58 AM	#8
kirk Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Spokane,Wa Posts: 324	SillyBread in total sincerity and being totally cordial and not doing this to start a fight, PLEASE!! explain to me Mike Portnoy's rudimental genius. Beyond simple groupings of single stroke use where is the genius. Portnoy is so basic it is not even funny. There are 18 year old guy's all over the net with deeper rudimentary foundations than Portnoy has even used. You want genius dig into Virg, Lang, Colaiuta, Weckl and so forth. No kidding these guy's with just right hand and foot are more innovative and complex than Portnoy can think of being. Portnoy being very busy does not make him very complex or innovative, Keith Moon was VERY busy and his drumming was simple. And I also guarantee you Texter MANY guy's listening to Virg and Planet X are not and have not been Big fan's if fans at all of Dream Theater period. Some guy's will always say why compare well because people always say This guy's got the goods and many guy's say show us the goods if you say they are there it is that simple. Talk is easy showing the proof otherwise. There are guy's (unknown)all over Virgil's board who are more developed technically and more innovative than Portnoy period. Kirk Kirk

06-09-2004, 12:43 PM	#9
rage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: DETROIT - Rock City Posts: 134	"Mike Portnoy is one of the best "gateway" drummers I've ever heard." I think Sillybreadmania and I seem to be in agreement that it is more for what Portnoy has "done for the sport" than for any individual prowess. Those of you who have been progging it for decades and have a deep appreciation for the old guard may be missing the weight of Portnoy's influence. There are thousands of musicians (drummer and non drummer alike) for whom 'prog' begins with Dream Theater (we all know Portnoy is DT's "leader"); for whom DT is the technical yardstick by which 'great' music is measured. These prog 'newbies' don't know or care to know (yet) about all the old names of past musical masters. They want to play like Mike!!! Alot of em I know personally STARTED with DT and then explored forward to bands like PX, Symphony X... even Buckethead. They really haven't had much interest in exploring Crimson or other members of the old guard. Seen in this light, DT kinda ushered in a nu-prog movement. Since Portnoy is their "leader", he certainly deserves a lionshare of the credit. rage

06-09-2004, 03:03 PM	#10
garneau Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Montréal Posts: 349	im wondering what would be the point of view of Mr.Sherinian about all that... after all, he's one of the rare ones who got the chance to play with both Virgil and Mike... i mean not only for a jam... live shows around the world with both of them for several years now and released a bunch of albums with them also...