View Full Version : Why not an album with vocals ?
Dudu__06
08-14-2008, 06:22 AM
it would be nice to have an Album that mix high qualite instrumentation and well worked vocals. Don't you Think ?
grohm
08-14-2008, 09:28 AM
it would be nice to have an Album that mix high qualite instrumentation and well worked vocals. Don't you Think ?
these days i listen to more and more all instrumental music and I dont miss the vocals at all. so if you're post refers to a PX album with vox, i certainly say no :-)
. so if you're post refers to a PX album with vox, i certainly say no :-)
I say certainly maybe...
I think it could work but the material would have to be different and appropriate for vocals. I would love to hear this band as a vocal fusion rock band. They would have to use a different name though because it would be a whole different animal.
frank
08-14-2008, 10:43 AM
Planet X + Vocals = Ring Of Fire = Cheese.
Planet X + Vocals = Ring Of Fire = Cheese.
Not really, considering Virgil doesn't write the material for RoF and he even says it's not his usual cup of tea. I think a progressive vocal band with material written by Virgil and Derek would be a whole different thing compared to RoF. Don't forget that Virgil originally wanted PX to have vocals but Derek talked him out of it. Are you saying that Virgil would have made an album of cheese? I think not!
frank
08-14-2008, 11:15 AM
Where on earth did you hear that Virgil wanted vocals for PX?
I'm so glad they didn't...
I don't know if it would have been cheesy or really cool or whatever, but I do know that I love this instrumental music.
nicho
08-14-2008, 12:13 PM
Planet x + Vocals = Definitively not Planet x
But i imagine that could be possible as a side project...
It would be funny to see Planet x with James Labrie as the vocalist :eek: :p
(I am sure there is among us people that will love it!)
No seriously, if it were necessary to vote for one i will choose Devin Townsend!
;) :D
I just wish it were possible to have this discussion without people getting hysterical and saying, "you can't put vocals on PX". We all know that, the real discussion should be whether the same band could make an album with vocals that would kick some serious butt. I think they could, but I do not advocate trying to sing over PX material. I also think they shouldn't have use the PX name. It would be a whole new project.
frank
08-14-2008, 12:28 PM
But in stead of putting time money and energy in such a project, I'd prefer another PX album.
Ok, I give up. We just can't have any sort of discussion about whether they could make a vocal album.
nicho
08-14-2008, 12:41 PM
I just wish it were possible to have this discussion without people getting hysterical and saying, "you can't put vocals on PX".
Ok boss! ;) :D
We all know that, the real discussion should be whether the same band could make an album with vocals that would kick some serious butt. I think they could, but I do not advocate trying to sing over PX material. I also think they shouldn't have use the PX name. It would be a whole new project.
Obviously they can... But i agree with what Frank said.
But in stead of putting time money and energy in such a project, I'd prefer another PX album.
:cool:
Nicho, what a completely pointless post.
PX with vocals would make me throw up. F**k that!
nicho
08-14-2008, 03:25 PM
Nicho, what a completely pointless post.
Ando, you don't make gifts with the words you use when you write generally, and particulary when you say: "I just wish it were possible to have this discussion without people getting hysterical and saying, "you can't put vocals on PX" while following my opinion about this thread.
Perhaps my post was pointless for you but not completely for me...
If u see what i mean...
Ando, chill out mate. You're always in such a bad mood.
PX with vocals would make me throw up. F**k that!
How would you know what sort of mood I'm in? I feel fine thanks.
My point above was that it would be nice to be able to discuss the idea of Derek and Virgil making an album with a vocalist (a good one) as a project quite separate from Planet X. I am no more interested in a PX record with vocals than you are, but whenever I or somebody else mentions a different project, it gets chopped off at the knees by people saying you can't put vocals on PX. First the last time - I'm not saying let's put vocals on PX! I'm suggesting I'd like to hear a new project in addition to PX. Is it impossible to discuss that? If you ask me, it's the grumpy people who think that even discussing it is a sacrilage that need to chill out. It's like some of you guys are saying , "no and stop discussing it" without even realising that it's not even about PX.
So when somebody says sarcastically, "OK boss", no, I'm in no mood for that crap because that is the person trying to control the conversation. I'm promoting the conversation while other want to shut it down. Who's trying to be the boss there?
Anyway Dee, I won't take it personally because I know you have a hot temper at times and I still consider you a mate.
So I'll direct this question to people who don't want to shut down the discussion: Forgetting PX for the moment, would anyone like to hear a record with Derek, Virgil and a great singer?
Ando, you don't make gifts with the words you use when you write generally, and particulary when you say: "I just wish it were possible to have this discussion without people getting hysterical and saying, "you can't put vocals on PX" while following my opinion about this thread.
Perhaps my post was pointless for you but not completely for me...
If u see what i mean...
I don't quite see what you mean Nicho, but I have tried to explain myself above to Dee. I thought you were being very sarcastic with your "Ok boss" remark - kind of accusing me of trying to dominate the conversation when all I wanted to do was discuss the topic of this thread with an open mind rather than shutting it down. By the way, I wasn't referring to you at all until your "ok Boss" thing. We have had discussions about this before and I was talking about the violent reactions it seems to get. Even though I have said I would like PX to continue as they are and have a different vocal thing on the side, I still get accused of saying I want vocals on PX. I don't understand why and I can't seem to stop it from happening no matter how clear I try to be about it.
If you weren't being sarcastic then I apologise, but it does read that way to me. Perhaps it's a language barrier thing.
Hope that clears it up.
How would you know what sort of mood I'm in? I feel fine thanks.
My point above was that it would be nice to be able to discuss the idea of Derek and Virgil making an album with a vocalist (a good one) as a project quite separate from Planet X. I am no more interested in a PX record with vocals than you are, but whenever I or somebody else mentions a different project, it gets chopped off at the knees by people saying you can't put vocals on PX. First the last time - I'm not saying let's put vocals on PX! I'm suggesting I'd like to hear a new project in addition to PX. Is it impossible to discuss that? If you ask me, it's the grumpy people who think that even discussing it is a sacrilage that need to chill out. It's like some of you guys are saying , "no and stop discussing it" without even realising that it's not even about PX.
So when somebody says sarcastically, "OK boss", no, I'm in no mood for that crap because that is the person trying to control the conversation. I'm promoting the conversation while other want to shut it down. Who's trying to be the boss there?
Anyway Dee, I won't take it personally because I know you have a hot temper at times and I still consider you a mate.
So I'll direct this question to people who don't want to shut down the discussion: Forgetting PX for the moment, would anyone like to hear a record with Derek, Virgil and a great singer?
OK, changed my post. I knew you'd take it bad. ;)
Check PM's, btw. I think it shouldn't be too difficult to recover your old data.
noble savage
08-14-2008, 04:07 PM
Man.. I would LOVE it if Derek and Virg started something that had the melodic and emotional jazz/fusion direction of Cynic with the heavy, mathematical direction of Meshuggah. I love both bands (Meshuggah has grown a lot on me recently!) and have always thought blending them together would make the ideal band. I know Derek has said he enjoyed both bands, so it may not be such a far off idea!
nicho
08-14-2008, 04:38 PM
I don't quite see what you mean Nicho, but I have tried to explain myself above to Dee. I thought you were being very sarcastic with your "Ok boss" remark - kind of accusing me of trying to dominate the conversation when all I wanted to do was discuss the topic of this thread with an open mind rather than shutting it down. By the way, I wasn't referring to you at all until your "ok Boss" thing. We have had discussions about this before and I was talking about the violent reactions it seems to get. Even though I have said I would like PX to continue as they are and have a different vocal thing on the side, I still get accused of saying I want vocals on PX. I don't understand why and I can't seem to stop it from happening no matter how clear I try to be about it.
If you weren't being sarcastic then I apologise, but it does read that way to me. Perhaps it's a language barrier thing.
Hope that clears it up.
mmh......
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=xH6qyNv-o5I
:mad::o:p
http://www.actuwa.org/files/grafics/0000-link-peace-button.jpg
Man.. I would LOVE it if Derek and Virg started something that had the melodic and emotional jazz/fusion direction of Cynic with the heavy, mathematical direction of Meshuggah. I love both bands (Meshuggah has grown a lot on me recently!) and have always thought blending them together would make the ideal band. I know Derek has said he enjoyed both bands, so it may not be such a far off idea!
Now you're talking!:)
noble savage
08-14-2008, 06:54 PM
You always hear about death metal bands incorporating fusion into their sound. I have never heard of anyone approaching it the other way around. I think it would be really cool to get a bunch of the most technically proficient jazz/fusion players and have them make a metal album! Fusion is good, but it needs more balls!
grohm
08-14-2008, 08:53 PM
Planet x + Vocals = Definitively not Planet x
But i imagine that could be possible as a side project...
It would be funny to see Planet x with James Labrie as the vocalist :eek: :p
(I am sure there is among us people that will love it!)
No seriously, if it were necessary to vote for one i will choose Devin Townsend!
;) :D
i dont think devin townsend would work out well....hes probably too much of a guy that has a vision and wants to work it out by himself and be the one in control over it all. thats why the VAI band didnt function very well - Vai has also the same approach so it just clashed (but they still made an amazing album)
grohm
08-14-2008, 09:02 PM
You always hear about death metal bands incorporating fusion into their sound. I have never heard of anyone approaching it the other way around. I think it would be really cool to get a bunch of the most technically proficient jazz/fusion players and have them make a metal album! Fusion is good, but it needs more balls!
i think that could be difficult. i know a lot of people who came to jazz/fusion over metal but not a single one who came to metal over jazz. there surely are some but it doesn't seem to be the rule.
actually, there are quite a lot of metalbands incorporating fusion and prog stuff into their sound but there are not too many who sound good with it IMO. at least i dont know a lot i like and i believe to have a pretty good overview over the current scene.
you can't just play two different styles to make metal-fusion, you really need to blend it well. but i'm positive that as time goes by more and more cool stuff will emerge. cynic set the 90 milestone for that kind of music, spiral architect for 00 so now hopefully somethign new comes up soon :-)
grohm
08-14-2008, 09:07 PM
if the px guys would make music with a singer, i just wonder who it could be. i thought about the last 10 minutes and i can't even name a single person i'd believe to sound remotely good....
the spiral architect singer would surely sound interesting with them, but i don't think i would like him with "px"....
anyway, the only true vox-man for PX is Dick Smother's Junior, period!
moefunk
08-15-2008, 12:18 AM
Oh man - why are we having yet another thread about this?
From past experience we know that this kind of thread doesn't seem to work because we have a number of people on this board that go into some kind of automatic defensive shock. "Oh no, PX with vocals! Aargh! Horrible! WTF" and other such reactions. Heck, that attitude was quite possibly fueled by a comment Derek once made about this: "Vocals, schmocals".
But still, there are quite a few bands out there that succesfully make complex music with quality vocals, so it must be possible.
I suppose the question for debate then should be: what if Derek and Virgil were to write and record a record with vocals on it - what style of vocals would you like to hear? Those who are dogmatically opposed to the idea of vocals I would especially ask to join in this hypothetical debate.
For me, one of the best qualities about PX is that they combine technically accomplished metal stuff with advanced harmonic complexity, groove and soul. If you think of it that way, that gives a couple of directions. Perhaps a more metal oriented style of vocals might fit, or a more soul-oriented thing. Or should they just turn to Corey Glover, who can do it all?
Let's keep this thread an open minded discussion, ok?
Oh man - why are we having yet another thread about this?
From past experience we know that this kind of thread doesn't seem to work because we have a number of people on this board that go into some kind of automatic defensive shock. "Oh no, PX with vocals! Aargh! Horrible! WTF" and other such reactions. Heck, that attitude was quite possibly fueled by a comment Derek once made about this: "Vocals, schmocals".
But still, there are quite a few bands out there that succesfully make complex music with quality vocals, so it must be possible.
I suppose the question for debate then should be: what if Derek and Virgil were to write and record a record with vocals on it - what style of vocals would you like to hear? Those who are dogmatically opposed to the idea of vocals I would especially ask to join in this hypothetical debate.
For me, one of the best qualities about PX is that they combine technically accomplished metal stuff with advanced harmonic complexity, groove and soul. If you think of it that way, that gives a couple of directions. Perhaps a more metal oriented style of vocals might fit, or a more soul-oriented thing. Or should they just turn to Corey Glover, who can do it all?
Let's keep this thread an open minded discussion, ok?
Good post Moe, that's exactly how I see it. The main problem with these discussions has been that it became about defiling PX with vocals, whereas it should have been about what is possible with these great musicians, even if it's just theoretical, if they had all the time and resources they needed to create something new. Nobody wants PX the "sickest instrumental band" to die, but another project that might even sell more CD's might help to keep PX alive. DT, SX Meshugga etc sell plenty of records (and make a whole lot more from gigs) so a vocal band would be competing for the same market - they could do quite well out of it if they got the right combo and the right material. More money would mean more side projects - not to mention that the more they play together, the more PX material they would generate automatically when jamming.:)
noble savage
08-15-2008, 01:34 AM
I think Derek and Virgil could easily make a successful (In Prog terms!) album if they got together and wrote something extremely heavy and complex, like Meshuggah, as I mentioned earlier. There really is a huge market out there for that type of music. As ando said earlier. Not much new said in this paragraph!
Hell, I'm willing to bet that Planet X is one of the more well known fusion bands because their music is kind of heavy. Just look at all of the great comments on their myspace!
Too much of their time is taken up being hired guns! I seriously think if they really wanted to, Derek and Virgil could still write awesome music and shift records! Just milk the system!
progmetalpilgrim
08-15-2008, 04:47 AM
ZOMG, onoes no vocals 4 PX!!11!WTF Neva! How culd u even suggest such a th1ng???????????????? Unless 1ts Jemes LABray of DT cuz thier the best pr0gband in the werld!!!1!!1
*Just in case no one picked it up, this was completely sarcastic, but this thread needed lightening up...*
Although I definately prefer instrumental music at the moment, I think some kind of project with Virgil, Derek, and someone like Russell Allen on vocals might be cool, if anyones heard his solo 'Atomic Soul' album, he has a very bluesy, rich voice along with his obvious metalness...
And on Chris's suggestion, that would be very cool to hear especially Virgil in that kind of drumming rampage, with someone like Ron Jarzombek I reckon, Ron made the whole 'going ultra heavy/tech/death project' thing work brilliantly with the Blotted Science album.
jemmy
08-15-2008, 08:46 AM
Let's look at this mathematically ;)
Hypothesis: PX + vocals = PX
Rewrite: vocals = 0
Conclusion: either there are no vocals or they amount to nothing ;)
QED
Let's look at this mathematically ;)
Hypothesis: PX + vocals = PX
Rewrite: vocals = 0
Conclusion: either there are no vocals or they amount to nothing ;)
QED
Ah yes, but, PX = 4 great musicians = D + V + G + B, where G=guitar, B =Bass
Great Theoretical band = D + V + G + B + S + new material
Thus, Great Theoretical band - S = Band missing a piece
Double QED.;)
moefunk
08-15-2008, 10:09 AM
pwned!!! LOL!
I can hear it now. Maybe Coverdale would work well...
"She's a Desert Girl [Desert Giiiirlll - backing harmonies by Derek & Virgil]
Sweetest thing I ever saw in the whole wide world,
My Desert Girl, ooh baby, heaven sent,
Gives me sweet sweet lovin' in exchange for dollars and cents,
She's a Desert Girl [Desert Giiiirlll - backing vocals by Derek & Virgil]..."
Or
"Ooh, baby... Oooh, ooh, baby...
Outside I'm white but inside I'm black... woah yeeeah" etc.
I mean seriously, is this really what you want?
noble savage
08-15-2008, 07:25 PM
"Ooh, baby... Oooh, ooh, baby...
Outside I'm white but inside I'm black... woah yeeeah" etc.
That's funny, there was a girl who told me the exact same thing once!:eek::D
But still, there are quite a few bands out there that succesfully make complex music with quality vocals, so it must be possible.
I'm interested to know which ones you're thinking of because I haven't heard a single one that isn't sickeningly cheesy. I can't imagine some twat on PX's brilliant music taking himself really seriously and singing about mystical gods or something. What kind of singer would work for PX?
That's funny, there was a girl who told me the exact same thing once!:eek::D
Was she a Desert Girl [Desert Giiirrrllll]?
nicho
08-15-2008, 07:28 PM
I can hear it now. Maybe Coverdale would work well...
I think that Michael would do it better! :p
I like Michael Jackson! He might work, especially on Inside Black.
noble savage
08-15-2008, 07:29 PM
Was she a Desert Girl [Desert Giiirrrllll]? No, she was a Bitch and a Her Animal in the sack, though!
Did she wear dog boots in the sack? Phwoooar.
noble savage
08-15-2008, 07:36 PM
I don't think so. I left after the Warfinger because it got too weird for me.
LMAO!
I don't wanna know any more. Thanks. ;)
Can you PM me her number?
noble savage
08-15-2008, 07:47 PM
Sure, but you should definitely have some air tight bailout plans just incase.;)
It's OK, I can run pretty quick.
grohm
08-15-2008, 09:01 PM
I can hear it now. Maybe Coverdale would work well...
"She's a Desert Girl [Desert Giiiirlll - backing harmonies by Derek & Virgil]
Sweetest thing I ever saw in the whole wide world,
My Desert Girl, ooh baby, heaven sent,
Gives me sweet sweet lovin' in exchange for dollars and cents,
She's a Desert Girl [Desert Giiiirlll - backing vocals by Derek & Virgil]..."
Or
"Ooh, baby... Oooh, ooh, baby...
Outside I'm white but inside I'm black... woah yeeeah" etc.
I mean seriously, is this really what you want?
WTF, Dee! When i read your first sentence i already meant you're beeing serious. goddamned, that scared the shit out of me, haha
don't tell me you dont enjoy whitesnake :cool:
grohm
08-15-2008, 09:02 PM
I like Michael Jackson! He might work, especially on Inside Black.
haha, stoooop! ROFL:...! man, i should stop reading your posts when other people are around, haha
grohm
08-15-2008, 09:07 PM
i still think that the spiral architect singer would probably work. he also writes some very interesting lyrics too
or something like cynic did, whit that robotic voice maybe?
corey glover is cool but i definitely dont want to hear him doing metal stuff....he's just got too much soul in his vice to be true metal \m/ :p
I can hear it now. Maybe Coverdale would work well...
"She's a Desert Girl [Desert Giiiirlll - backing harmonies by Derek & Virgil]
Sweetest thing I ever saw in the whole wide world,
My Desert Girl, ooh baby, heaven sent,
Gives me sweet sweet lovin' in exchange for dollars and cents,
She's a Desert Girl [Desert Giiiirlll - backing vocals by Derek & Virgil]..."
Or
"Ooh, baby... Oooh, ooh, baby...
Outside I'm white but inside I'm black... woah yeeeah" etc.
I mean seriously, is this really what you want?
Actually Dee, i'm thinking something more like:
She's so dry and dirty,
All she wants is to get wet,
Cos she's a Desert Girl,
lookin' for some Underwater love,
yeah she's a Desert Girl,
wantin' Dee's Underwater Love......
moefunk
08-16-2008, 12:57 AM
She'd be looking for his Underwater Love, but she'd be more likely to find his Unraveled Tower...
progmetalpilgrim
08-16-2008, 01:00 AM
i still think that the spiral architect singer would probably work. he also writes some very interesting lyrics too
or something like cynic did, whit that robotic voice maybe?
corey glover is cool but i definitely dont want to hear him doing metal stuff....he's just got too much soul in his vice to be true metal \m/ :p
Oyvind Haegland of SA is fantastic, I get a bit annoyed by Cynics robotic voice though, I wouldn't go for that personally...
Actually Dee, i'm thinking something more like:
She's so dry and dirty,
All she wants is to get wet,
Cos she's a Desert Girl,
lookin' for some Underwater love,
yeah she's a Desert Girl,
wantin' Dee's Underwater Love......
Haha! Very good, Andrew.
She'd be looking for his Underwater Love, but she'd be more likely to find his Unraveled Tower...
She'd be even more likely to find my girlfriend's boot up her ass if she found out.
don't tell me you dont enjoy whitesnake :cool:
Argggh! No! I like John Sykes' riffs though.
grohm
08-16-2008, 09:30 PM
Argggh! No! I like John Sykes' riffs though.
no shame necessary....i really enjoy the whole album that vai played on, from start to end. afaik, he didnt even write most of the guitar lines and i dont know the other albums, though. but i guess they will be in about the same vein....
moefunk
08-18-2008, 12:24 AM
Well - yes and no. The songwriting on the earlier albums is a lot more bluesrock based - think of Coverdale era Deep Purple, they're in that general direction of rock. Bernie Marsden & Mick Moody wrote the majority of the earlier Whitesnake stuff I think. I don't exactly know when John Sykes came on board, but he wrote the entire '1987' - album, which made the band really take of, with such hits as Here I Go Again (with a guitar solo by Adrian Vandenberg - this song was already on one of their earlier albums too), In The Still Of The Night, Is This Love etc. Then Adrian Vandenberg and Viv Campbell stepped in, they didn't really get along, and Adrian wrote the entire Slip Of The Tongue album (except Fool For Your Loving, which is again a rerecorded song from an earlier album), which was intended to be more of a traditional-sounding Whitesnake album, but after Adrian was foolish enough to cause himself some sort of tendonitis in his wrists, they had to get somebody else in to record the guitars. Enter Steve who doesn't really like blues and was given free reign to do with the songs what he liked. There you have the long and short of it...
Nugget: 'Slip of The Tongue' had an initial title of 'Liquor and Poker'...boooohoooo!:p
Sykes was better in Blue Murder anyway, but they only had about 4 good tracks on their first album, the rest were total cheese. He can sing 100 times better than Coverdale. That's probably why they kicked him out of Whitesnake.
moefunk
08-18-2008, 02:38 AM
Cheese?
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=WNmmZXzi4MIC&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=total+cheese&source=web&ots=Bh4J2UPZXe&sig=TMzeZV-Fz94-v4c5NC73EYO88mQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#PPA12,M1
More cheese!:
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://i30.twenga.com/3/tp/72/54/133397254.png&imgrefurl=http://www.twenga.co.uk/dir-Gastronomy,World-cheese,Cheese-selection&h=100&w=100&sz=7&hl=en&start=36&um=1&tbnid=oEI6-4xuJkoxnM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtotal%2Bcheese%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D 18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
noble savage
08-18-2008, 03:09 AM
Mozzarella Cheese is the pinacle of human creation.
moefunk
08-18-2008, 03:15 AM
I love cheese! And sausage, too. If I could live on just freshly baked bread, cheeses and chorizo or salami, I wouldn't hesitate!:D
noble savage
08-18-2008, 03:29 AM
I have never been a fan of Salami, tastes too much like pepperoni, which explains why I don't like it.
Fresh baked Italian bread toasted with some cheese on it, however, is one of my favorite foods. Or, as I'm actually eating now, Rigatoni Noodles with tomato sauce and Swiss cheese. Grains and cheese go perfectly together!
Speaking of food, a Sushi place just opened up right next to my house. Sweet Jeebus I love Smoked Salmon Sushi!
We're probably going to give Dee a stroke, maybe a food thread is on order?:D
No, that's fine, I prefer a thread about cheese any day to a thread about Planet X with vocals, so I'll let you off. This time.
However, threads about salami shall not be tolerated -- I am a hardcore vegetarian! :(
moefunk
08-18-2008, 04:05 AM
Ach, mine Froind, ze Wurst is yet to come!
noble savage
08-18-2008, 04:56 AM
I know I could stop eating meat, hell I might start just for the hell of it... The only meat I actually like is steak (Assuming fish doesn't count). But, what I can't stand is all of the strange 'health foods' that people eat. Like soy milk and (some) organic foods. *puke* Give me hormone injected milk instead!
I don't eat "health foods", I just don't eat meat. Soya milk sucks! Cutting out meat was the best thing I ever did, and I've been vege since about 1979. Wow, I can't believe it's almost 30 years...
noble savage
08-18-2008, 05:48 AM
I don't eat "health foods", I just don't eat meat. Soya milk sucks! Cutting out meat was the best thing I ever did, and I've been vege since about 1979. Wow, I can't believe it's almost 30 years...
You mean it was better health wise after becoming a vegetarian? I have actually heard that many times before. Most recently from my aunt who is a vegetarian, but she believes that crystals can heal people - so I just put it in the back of my mind.:p
I can only see how it would be healthier. Just thinking about all of the shit they put in meat makes me sick. Compare a chickens size when raised on nothing but grain and then one raised by companies like Perdue..:eek: The chicken could kick my ass!
It's more of a clear conscience thing for me, I can't hurt animals nor even kill things like mosquito's or flies, I always save them and put them outside if they're in the house. I have no right to take a life. But yes, meat is not good for you, despite all the BS about "blah blah you need the protein", etc. It stays in your system for literally years rotting away.
Good article: http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm
Try it out for a month or two, Chris. See how it makes you feel to be vegetarian. If you preferred it when you ate meat, go back again.
noble savage
08-18-2008, 06:26 AM
Interesting and slightly disturbing article. Funny how you never hear about this kind of stuff more often..
progmetalpilgrim
08-18-2008, 06:34 AM
I love meat.
grohm
08-18-2008, 08:11 AM
It's more of a clear conscience thing for me, I can't hurt animals nor even kill things like mosquito's or flies, I always save them and put them outside if they're in the house. I have no right to take a life. But yes, meat is not good for you, despite all the BS about "blah blah you need the protein", etc. It stays in your system for literally years rotting away.
Good article: http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm
Try it out for a month or two, Chris. See how it makes you feel to be vegetarian. If you preferred it when you ate meat, go back again.
i think with meat eating its the same thing as with every other one, too: you got to find the good middle way. eating too much ort too less is both to extreme for me. i try to only eat a steak or something really of good quality on the weekend days and that's it. its true that about a hundred (or not even that) years ago people ate a lot less meat than nowadays and i think more shouldn't be necessary.
and the article is just BS.... f.ex. "Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue".... yeah right! and what about any predator birds any cat-like animals? and i dont think i have ever seen a crocodile perspire through his tongue.
and the typical human teeth are definitely made for vegies AND meat. Look on any species with a similar bit, like apes etc, almost all of their subspecies also eat both, meat and vegies.
and the human saliva is definitely not alkaline.
to me, this article reads like it was written by some obsessed and fanatic vegetarian. i'd rather like more infos about this topic from a more neutral person.
i think its wrong to pass articles like this to persons who might be interested in becoming vegetarian....it shows the picture of a fanatic group denying facts for their own benefit and that's definitely n ot the way to go. a well researched article with simply the (true) pro's and cons would do much better .
moefunk
08-18-2008, 08:28 AM
In addition to what Grohm said, I just tend to shake my head sadly when I read articles like that: there a pretense (sp?) of science there, while in effect it's as biased as it can be.
Besides with the obvious biased interpretation of facts (as addressed by Grohm), my main dispute is with what it doesn't say.
For one thing, it conveniently leaves out that just about all known human cultures throughout history and over the entire globe have included meat in their food. Granted, not in the quantities we have today, but still - it's not just something from the last 100 years and it's not just American.
Also, there is one trait that all predators share and that is conveniently ignored in thie article, and that's that their eyes are in the front of their face, rather than at the side. Eyes on the side of the head enable a larger range of view which is very much a prey's feature enabling them to see predators as early as possible. Eyes in front enables depth perception and focus. A predator thing. And what would we prey on if we didn't naturally eat meat? Veggies and fruits generaly don't have the tendency to run away very fast...
Well, whatever - too much meat is not good for you, just as too little is not good for you. Most vegetarians that I've met are too skinny and tend to lack a sense of humour. That last bit probably hasn't got anything to do with their meat-less diet, but it's just an observation...
grohm
08-18-2008, 08:35 AM
Moe: Most of the vegetarians I know also tend to have a lack of humour....that's pretty interesting.
Moe: Most of the vegetarians I know also tend to have a lack of humour....that's pretty interesting.
I agree too, I think it's because many of them are quasi-political types who spend a lot of time brow-beating others on why their point of view is what all humans should be doing to save the planet, rather than simply arguing the merits of their choice at an appropriate time. That is why a majority of them don't have many friends of different persuasions. They simply can't tolerate others' views or they make themselves intolerable by their own behaviour.
I think there are merits to being a vegetarian and I respect that choice fully. I've also considered it myself. You certainly can be fully nourished if you really know what to eat and in what combinations (as I'm sure Dee would, for example). But I don't like the constant intrusion it can make on a friendship - the subtle but constant disapproval you feel from some vegetarians. I don't get it from all of them, but probably half of them are like that. They also tend to gather up so-called facts which are anything but scientific and label them as truth. With respect Dee, that whole "meat sits in your gut for years and rots" is just nonsense. That would only happen to a very ill person. Certainly not to a person who eats meat in moderation along with plenty of fruit and vegetables.
There is no question that being a meat-eater raises some issues. Establishing a sensible, healthy limit for one, and on a greater level, how much meat-eating can the Earth sustain when trying to maximum yield from our land area and ensure enough food for everyone alive. Those are important and objective areas of study. Moralising and scare tactics and pseudo-science aren't useful ways of discussing it.
For the record Dee, I don't include you in that bad group. I think you express your position quite respectfully - with the exception of the "meat rotting in your gut for years" thing which has no more basis than the swallowing chewing gum myths which have long ago been debunked by the good old colonoscopy!
It's more of a clear conscience thing for me, I can't hurt animals nor even kill things like mosquito's or flies, I always save them and put them outside if they're in the house. I have no right to take a life.
It's funny, when contemplating whether I should become a vegetarian, none of my considerations are based on health reasons. For it's all about the treatment of animals thing. I certainly have started to change what I will buy. ie. only free-range chicken/eggs. I try to find out the source of the meat I buy. Even so, it's still something I'm evaluating.
As far as cruelty to animals go, I guess I have drawn an arbitrary line for myself where insects are concerned. I can't really justify it morally. For some reason, I have no feelings about killing insects which try to bite me! When it comes to spiders though (I know, not really an insect!), I will catch them and put them outside. I will try to wave flies out of the door, but if they piss me off for too long, they will cop it. Now that I think about it, I guess I can justify my position: If it tries to bite me, can kill me or buzzes around me too long after I've given it a chance to leave, it gets squashed.:o
jemmy
08-18-2008, 12:37 PM
It's interesting to again witness this messagboard's ability to sidetrack a(ny) thread within very short time ;)
grohm
08-18-2008, 12:51 PM
i dont know about US and OZ but many european countries offer a wide selection of natural grown "bio-meat" where the cattle could live on a farm with runout and no growth hormones in it's food etc. It costs more, sometimes more than the double than normal, but it really looks and tastes MUCH better. i've started to only buy this or directly from the farmer I know some years ago and since then i can't even eat a burger anymore. I started to taste/realize what a piece of bullshit that cheap meat is as soon as i even see or it. i think i couldn't eat a mc donalds burger if my live depends on it anymore, which i consider beeing something very good :-)
So i can only recommend that so called "bio-meat" and i wonder how this is going on in other countries.
moefunk
08-18-2008, 01:42 PM
In analogy to the original topic of this thread, it would appear that there are those who enjoy a meal with meat, and there are those who prefer theirs without - just as there are those who would interested to hear PX-type music with vocals, and those who prefer theirs without.
Thus, vocals and meat, or more precisely to the letter of the earlier posts, singers and salamis are substitutes...ehrm.....what's my point again? :o
moefunk
08-18-2008, 01:43 PM
It's interesting to again witness this messagboard's ability to sidetrack a(ny) thread within very short time ;)
Yes, it's amazing, isn't it?:D
grohm
08-18-2008, 02:05 PM
If it tries to bite me, can kill me or buzzes around me too long after I've given it a chance to leave, it gets squashed.:o
jep, thats also my way :cool:
grohm
08-18-2008, 02:07 PM
In analogy to the original topic of this thread, it would appear that there are those who enjoy a meal with meat, and there are those who prefer theirs without - just as there are those who would interested to hear PX-type music with vocals, and those who prefer theirs without.
Thus, vocals and meat, or more precisely to the letter of the earlier posts, singers and salamis are substitutes...ehrm.....what's my point again? :o
so the conclusion we all come to would be that singers are actually salamis?
yes, i would agree to that.
noble savage
08-18-2008, 04:36 PM
It's funny, when contemplating whether I should become a vegetarian, none of my considerations are based on health reasons. For it's all about the treatment of animals thing. I certainly have started to change what I will buy. ie. only free-range chicken/eggs. I try to find out the source of the meat I buy. Even so, it's still something I'm evaluating.
As far as cruelty to animals go, I guess I have drawn an arbitrary line for myself where insects are concerned. I can't really justify it morally. For some reason, I have no feelings about killing insects which try to bite me! When it comes to spiders though (I know, not really an insect!), I will catch them and put them outside. I will try to wave flies out of the door, but if they piss me off for too long, they will cop it. Now that I think about it, I guess I can justify my position: If it tries to bite me, can kill me or buzzes around me too long after I've given it a chance to leave, it gets squashed.
The first paragraph is exactly the reason why I would stop eating meat. I actually haven't once been able to eat meat in the past year and a half without feeling some sort of guilt, as strange as that sounds. Besides, even looking at a slaughter house is enough to make me cringe.
Bugs and spiders (Especially spiders, I think they are cool!) I also let go when in the house. My friends brother killed/beat the shit out of a snake a few years ago and it was one one of the rare times where I got seriously pissed off at someone.
Oh, and as for that article, I didn't read all of it, but one of the few bits I skimmed over cited something from The University of Chicago, so..
Dudu__06
08-18-2008, 07:25 PM
you are so limited,
I did not said to make an album with vocals
in every song. My opinion is to mix instrumental sections
with vocals in some songs. Donīt be limited by classifications
that you people do.
jemmy
08-18-2008, 07:40 PM
In any case, we were quite limited by your lack of ability as to expressing clearly and succintly (favourite forum word!) what you actually want to say ;)
CBR1000F
08-18-2008, 09:18 PM
My opinion: Planet X should stay "without vocals"!!
I wouldn't have a problem with the fact that Derek or Virgil would make records with vocals but I hope that they would use a different bandname than Planet X for that (and I doubt if I would buy it).
For instance, I really can't think what the benefit would be of adding vocals to the albums they already made as Planet X. They are perfect as they are now, adding vocals would simply ruin all what Planet X is about.
Fusion is good, but it needs more balls!
Well isn't that exactly where Planet X came into the world of music? :)
Just a quick one: I would never force my views on others. I won't argue about the article I posted, it just raises a few interesting points. Take it as you will. And if you can live with your karma for eating dead things and supporting a business which makes money out of death, good on you! :)
progmetalpilgrim
08-19-2008, 01:10 AM
Veggies and fruits generaly don't have the tendency to run away very fast...
I dunno man, I often come across some escapees around my plate after dinner, especially the peas... :p
moefunk
08-19-2008, 01:18 AM
you are so limited,
I did not said to make an album with vocals
in every song. My opinion is to mix instrumental sections
with vocals in some songs. Donīt be limited by classifications
that you people do.
Funny how you can call us limited when we've been able to take this thread from 'PX experiment with vocals' to Whitesnake to cheese and salami to vegetarianism to pseudo-science back to vegetarianism and even a (wild) analogy between all those topics to get it back on track...
I'm just glad you didn't come back with a generalised statement accusing all of us of being narrow-minded analysts incapable of independent thought - oh, wait a minute, that's what you just did, right? Do you really think that was called for after such an entertaining thread with a wide variety of opinions on a variety of subjects? :confused:
If you didn't get out of this thread what you had hoped for then perhaps you might care to add some on-topic suggestions yourself and actively take part in the discussion rather than just letting us rant and then come back with that ridiculous statement...;)
progmetalpilgrim
08-19-2008, 02:48 AM
I actually prefer mixed albums even less actually... If its going to be a band/vocal album, make it that, or instrumental, make it all instrumental, don't just throw in a few vocal tracks for the sake of it...
grohm
08-19-2008, 08:23 AM
I actually prefer mixed albums even less actually... If its going to be a band/vocal album, make it that, or instrumental, make it all instrumental, don't just throw in a few vocal tracks for the sake of it...
well,d depends on the band i'd say....there are some instrumentals on spiral architect ;)
frank
08-19-2008, 01:46 PM
Some? I can think of 1 song, a very short one.
grohm
08-20-2008, 07:57 AM
Some? I can think of 1 song, a very short one.
damn me....!
yes, only one.
jemmy
08-20-2008, 08:05 AM
damn me....!
yes, only one.
Do you often hear vocals which exist only in your head? ;)
grohm
08-20-2008, 10:27 AM
Do you often hear vocals which exist only in your head? ;)
no, you misunderstood the situation. it's the other way around.
i often hear instrumentals which only exist in my head. i often tend to transform them onto my computer through my instruments then. :p
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